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BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/20/2010 4:50:57 AM
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Nige55
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Thought it would be interesting to share this as it comes from a well regarded source and represents points that are often raised from
the secular world (I know many, if not all have been covered here before - I'm not expecting this thread to discuss it all again , - it's more
for reference).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8467755.stm
At the heart of Haiti's humanitarian crisis is an age old question for many religious people - how can God allow such terrible things to happen? Philosopher David Bain examines the arguments.
Evil has always been a thorn in the side of those - of whatever faith - who believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God.
As the philosopher David Hume (echoing Epicurus) put it in 1776: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"
Faced with this question, Archbishop of York John Sentamu said he had "nothing to say to make sense of this horror", while another clergyman, Canon Giles Fraser, preferred to respond "not with clever argument but with prayer".
I have nothing to say that makes sense of this horror - all I know is that the message of the death and resurrection of Jesus is that he is with us
Archbishop of York, John Sentamu
Perhaps their stance is understandable. The Old Testament is also not clear to the layman on such matters. When Job complains about the injuries God has allowed him to suffer, and claims "they are tricked that trusted", God says nothing to rebut the charges.
Less reticent is the American evangelist Pat Robertson. He has suggested Haiti has been cursed ever since the population swore a pact with the Devil to gain their freedom from the French at the beginning of the 19th Century. Robertson's claim will strike many as ludicrous, if not offensive.
And even were it true, it wouldn't obviously meet the challenge.
Why would a loving deity allow such a pact to seem necessary? Why wouldn't he have freed the Haitians from slavery himself, or prevented them from being enslaved in the first place? And why, in particular, would he punish today's Haitians for something their forbears putatively did more than two centuries before?
So what should believers say? To make progress, we might distinguish two kinds of evil:
•the awful things people do, such as murder, and
•the awful things that just happen, such as earthquakes
Would those hailed as brave still exist in a Magical World?
St Augustine, author CS Lewis and others have argued God allows our bad actions since preventing them would undermine our free will, the value of which outweighs its ill effects.
But there's a counter-argument. Thoroughly good people aren't robots, so why couldn't God have created only people like them, people who quite freely live good lives?
However that debate turns out, it's quite unclear how free will is supposed to explain the other kind of evil - the death and suffering of the victims of natural disasters.
Perhaps it would if all the victims - even the newborn - were so bad that they deserved their agonising deaths, but it's impossible to believe that is the case.
Or perhaps free will would be relevant if human negligence always played a role. There will be some who say the scale of the tragedy in natural disasters is partly attributable to humans. The world has the choice to help its poorer parts build earthquake-resistant structures and tsunami warning systems.
A still smoking Krakatoa in 1883, which caused a devastating tsunami
But the technology has not always existed. Was prehistoric man, with his sticks and stones, somehow negligent in failing to build early warning systems for the tsunamis that were as deadly back then as they are today?
The second century saint, Irenaeus, and the 20th Century philosopher, John Hick, appeal instead to what is sometimes called soul-making. God created a universe in which disasters occur, they think, because goodness only develops in response to people's suffering.
To appreciate this idea, try to imagine a world containing people, but literally no suffering. Call it the Magical World. In that world, there are no earthquakes or tsunamis, or none that cause suffering. If people are hit by falling masonry, it somehow bounces off harmlessly. If I steal your money, God replaces it. If I try to hurt you, I fail.
So why didn't God create the Magical World instead of ours? Because, the soul-making view says, its denizens wouldn't be - couldn't be - truly good people.
It's not that they would all be bad. It's that they couldn't be properly good. For goodness develops only where it's needed, the idea goes, and it's not needed in the Magical World.
In that world, after all, there is no danger that requires people to be brave, so there would be no bravery. That world contains no one who needs comfort or kindness or sympathy, so none would be given. It's a world without moral goodness, which is why God created ours instead.
But there is wiggle room.
Even in a world where nothing bad happens, couldn't there be brave people - albeit without the opportunity to show it? So moral goodness could exist even if it were never actually needed.
And, anyway, suppose we agree moral goodness could indeed develop only in a world of suffering.
Doesn't our world contain a surplus of suffering? People do truly awful things to each other. Isn't the suffering they create enough for soul-making? Did God really need to throw in earthquakes and tsunamis as well?
Suffering's distribution, not just its amount, can also cause problems. A central point of philosopher Immanuel Kant's was that we mustn't exploit people - we mustn't use them as mere means to our ends. But it can seem that on the soul-making view God does precisely this. He inflicts horrible deaths on innocent earthquake victims so that the rest of us can be morally benefitted.
That hardly seems fair.
It's OK, some will insist, because God works in mysterious ways. But mightn't someone defend a belief in fairies by telling us they do too? Others say their talk of God is supposed to acknowledge not the existence of some all-powerful and all-good agent, who created and intervenes in the universe, but rather something more difficult to articulate - a thread of meaning or value running through the world, or perhaps something ineffable.
But, as for those who believe in an all-good, all-powerful agent-God, we've seen that they face a question that remains pressing after all these centuries, and which is now horribly underscored by the horrors in Haiti. If a deity exists, why didn't he prevent this?
David Bain is a lecturer in the philosophy department of the University of Glasgow.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/21/2010 8:29:46 AM
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drmark
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The question - How can a good God allow evil and suffering? - has been asked by mankind for millenia of time. Personally, I find it one of the most cogent arguments for the existence of Moral God. How would we even acknowledge evil and suffering if there were no "all-good, all-powerful agent God" against Whom we can define evil and suffering. Whoever David Bain is, he obviously doesn't understand real Christian apologetics.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 1:52:16 AM
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dbark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
The question - How can a good God allow evil and suffering? - has been asked by mankind for millenia of time. Personally, I find it one of the most cogent arguments for the existence of Moral God. How would we even acknowledge evil and suffering if there were no "all-good, all-powerful agent God" against Whom we can define evil and suffering. Whoever David Bain is, he obviously doesn't understand real Christian apologetics.
Be that as it may, this question is one to which most Christians have no good and satisfying answer. Many believe they have the answer, but often it is only satisfying to themselves. It may be that this is one of the greatest mysteries about God and our world that we will never fully understand. God asks us to trust him in spite of our insecurities - if we could answer all of the mysteries of God - they would not be mysteries at all and we would have the mind of God.
I have found a way to make a certain amount of peace with my doubts and my faith (which cannot exist without doubt) and to trust God amidst the knowledge that I can only understand a small bit of who He is.
_____________________________
"In seeking wisdom thou art wise; in imagining that thou hast attained it, thou art a fool." ~ Rabbi Ben Azai
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 2:26:08 AM
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abraxas
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quote:
How would we even acknowledge evil and suffering if there were no "all-good, all-powerful agent God" against Whom we can define evil and suffering.
So, if there was no "God", and people were built the way they're built, they wouldn't be able to say, "a warm bath feels nice" or "boiling water poured over me feels very bad"?
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 8:15:51 AM
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drmark
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If there were no God, then by definition, people would not be "built the way they're built"! 
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 8:40:31 AM
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abraxas
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That's a completely different argument than the one you put forth in your earlier post.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 8:58:52 AM
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drmark
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Not true! People recognize good and evil precisely because we have all been created by God who defines good and evil for all His creation. I believe this is a form of the Ontological Argument but I'm open to correction from someone who knows Christian apologetics well.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 9:22:31 AM
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abraxas
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Strange, in your earlier post you said we wouldn't be able to acknowledge suffering if there wasn't an '"all-good, all-powerful agent God" against Whom we can define evil and suffering.' Now you're arguing that it's because we wouldn't exist in the first place... 
Or is it, that if there wasn't an "all-good, all-powerful agent God", we wouldn't have nerve endings that send various messages to our brains--which we also wouldn't have?
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 10:53:30 AM
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drmark
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Sorry you find it strange - it makes perfect sense to me. And I never said "we wouldn't exist in the first place". I said "we would not be built the way people are built"!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 11:53:00 AM
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abraxas
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Okay I'll chew on that. What is it about that way God built us, and how does that tie in to the idea of the problem of evil?
If God built us the way we were built, and here we are toiling with the problem of evil/suffering in the world, how does knoweledge that God built us this way help us with that problem?
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 12:06:32 PM
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drmark
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quote:
If God built us the way we were built, and here we are toiling with the problem of evil/suffering in the world, how does knoweledge that God built us this way help us with that problem? Well, I can only speak for myself, but I am not "toiling with the problem of evil/suffering in the world", because I have the blessed assurance that God is in charge even when He allows evil/suffering to occur against His pleasure. Thus, I do not have to understand all the whys and why nots when I know the Creator of all the whys and why nots!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/27/2010 12:36:36 PM
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abraxas
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I think the motivation that drives such questions comes from a feeling of solidarity with, or of sympathy towards, those taking these kinds of 'evils' smack on the head. it's nice to believe that these calamities and all the sufering will balance out in the bigger picture, and jeez just thinking of one such tragedy--like what's going on in Haiti--paints a picture of sooo much of that. I guess that's the big question for a lot of poeple, will this type of indiscrimitate suffering balance itself out for these people?
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/28/2010 12:43:30 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
But, as for those who believe in an all-good, all-powerful agent-God, we've seen that they face a question that remains pressing after all these centuries, and which is now horribly underscored by the horrors in Haiti. If a deity exists, why didn't he prevent this?
The answer is that He is the one who caused this catastrophe (much as many Christians want to shy away from this reality), and He has a higher purpose than to simply prevent or alleviate human suffering. While the body is temporal, the soul is eternal and God is concerned with the ultimate destiny of human souls.
God's judgments are meant to teach humans a lesson -- that sin and evil have serious consequences. That's why the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah is repeated several times in the New Testament. But they cannot sufficiently protray the eternal horrors of Hell.
Human beings are generally unconcerned about their eternal souls, therefore they make this life the be all and end all of everything. But Christ taught differently, and Christ warned us about Hell again and again.
When individuals and nations ignore or reject the Gospel, they must and will be judged. Note what the Lord Jesus Christ has already said in the Gospel of Matthew chapter 11 :
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Sodom was judged with a catastrophic judgment just like Haiti. But there is an eternal judgment awaiting the inhabitants of Sodom, as also the inhabitants of Haiti, as well as all sinners who will not look at this judgment and repent.
Now, I ask you, should not every individual and nation have taken these words of Christ to heart already, since the Gospel has been preached on this planet for over 2,000 years?
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 9:08:23 AM
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abraxas
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quote:
The answer is that He is the one who caused this catastrophe (much as many Christians want to shy away from this reality), and He has a higher purpose than to simply prevent or alleviate human suffering. While the body is temporal, the soul is eternal and God is concerned with the ultimate destiny of human souls.
Well, this is something that was addressed by Bain:
quote:
Suffering's distribution, not just its amount, can also cause problems. A central point of philosopher Immanuel Kant's was that we mustn't exploit people - we mustn't use them as mere means to our ends. But it can seem that on the soul-making view God does precisely this. He inflicts horrible deaths on innocent earthquake victims so that the rest of us can be morally benefitted.
So it does seem that you're arguing that God is doing as Bain writes. It's interesting to note that what one person can use to justify this kind of evil in the world can be used practically word for word by another to frame the problem itself.
Besides, if God's concern is with the ultimate destiny of human souls, purposefully causing hundreds of thousands of them to "die in their sins" is quite an odd way to go about it. If, that is, it is true that this life is a soul's one and only chance to do whatever it is that's needed to escape spending eternity in Hell. How many adolescents, who still had years of learning and growth and change, were sent on their way to Hell prematurely to get this message across?
And why earthquakes or other natural disasters? Who is primed to interpret such a tragedy as a message from Jesus? Only people who already believe in Jesus--and not even all of those. So, it's not very effective. That's a lot of horrible death and suffering considering how beyond assertions such as yours, there's not much that says, "This was done by Jesus--you've been warned!"
And since this topic seems to mushroom out into all sorts of other questions, I need to put one more: Why or how in the world would a reasonable person, assuming they did acknowledge that this was caused by God, then grow to love and worship that God?????? bleh.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 11:44:20 AM
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lovelylisaaln
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Ezra i think your missing the weight of the importance of the cross and why God sent HIS ONLY SON to die!!!
Also Sodom and Garomah are mentioned in the newtestiment but please direct me to where the same thing happens again in the new testament (after Jesus died on the cross) and also look at the flood God said after that his would never do this again.
Also revelation and other places does say that earth quakes IN GENERAL will come but these are just birth pains (in other words sadly IT HAPPENS). The bible says that it rains on both the righteous and the unrighteous and he wasn't just talking about the weather.
If in your opinion God acts in this way why have countries that are cruelest to His children been allowed to continue?? These countries have very strong sons and daughters within there borders who are disowned, abandoned and even tortured for their faith in Christ every day. Is God judging them? Also Haiti is not the only place on earth that practices voodoo and such like.
Also in the academic sense maybe you need to look in your school books again and learn how earth quakes happen.
Sorry i dont mean to be rude but im deeply disturbed by people who say things like Hurricane Katrina, Tsunami and now this earth quake are a direct result of God judgement after Christ because if that is so then to your mind Christ died in vain.
Sorry if this is going off topic but its been picking at me all day and really annoys me.
_____________________________
Thou seemest human and divine,
The highest, holiest manhood, thou.
Our wills are ours, we know not how;
Our wills are ours, to make them thine.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 2:23:10 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lovelylisaaln
Ezra i think your missing the weight of the importance of the cross and why God sent HIS ONLY SON to die!!!
Also Sodom and Garomah are mentioned in the newtestiment but please direct me to where the same thing happens again in the new testament (after Jesus died on the cross) and also look at the flood God said after that his would never do this again.
Also revelation and other places does say that earth quakes IN GENERAL will come but these are just birth pains (in other words sadly IT HAPPENS). The bible says that it rains on both the righteous and the unrighteous and he wasn't just talking about the weather.
If in your opinion God acts in this way why have countries that are cruelest to His children been allowed to continue?? These countries have very strong sons and daughters within there borders who are disowned, abandoned and even tortured for their faith in Christ every day. Is God judging them? Also Haiti is not the only place on earth that practices voodoo and such like.
Also in the academic sense maybe you need to look in your school books again and learn how earth quakes happen.
Sorry i dont mean to be rude but im deeply disturbed by people who say things like Hurricane Katrina, Tsunami and now this earth quake are a direct result of God judgement after Christ because if that is so then to your mind Christ died in vain.
Sorry if this is going off topic but its been picking at me all day and really annoys me.
Excellent post.
In addition, what glory would God get for bringing judgment on New Orleans or Haiti if they weren't specifically warned in advance and only a handful of savvy people on the planet can figure out their catastrophe came directly from God - after the fact?
To me, that's a little like shooting a gun and, afterwards, painting the bull's eye and rings around the bullet hole.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 2:29:24 PM
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lovelylisaaln
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thanks Eutychus - I had been brewing on it all day while painting my new kitchen 
_____________________________
Thou seemest human and divine,
The highest, holiest manhood, thou.
Our wills are ours, we know not how;
Our wills are ours, to make them thine.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 3:31:55 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lovelylisaaln
Ezra i think your missing the weight of the importance of the cross and why God sent HIS ONLY SON to die!!!
Actually, LL, the importance of the Cross and why God sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins is clearly understood only when sinners understand that there is a very real Hell -- the Lake of Fire -- and that is the reason why God placed a barrier between mankind and Hell by interposing the Cross. That is exactly what I have attempted to present. Disasters are meant to bring people to a realization of the mighty power and judgments of God -- temporal and eternal. So I am not missing the point but underlining something which a lot of preachers fail to present.
quote:
Also Sodom and Garomah are mentioned in the newtestiment but please direct me to where the same thing happens again in the new testament (after Jesus died on the cross) and also look at the flood God said after that his would never do this again.
Actually there are numerous passages in the NT that speak of future judgments after the Cross. Study 2 Peter chapter 3 and also the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. There will never again be a worldwide flood because the next time it will be a worldwide supernatural fire. So very definitely God will bring awesome and awful judgments upon this earth because the Christ of the Cross has been ignored or rejected.
quote:
Also revelation and other places does say that earth quakes IN GENERAL will come but these are just birth pains (in other words sadly IT HAPPENS).
First of all, things don't "just happen" in this universe, and that is a truth that too many people need to learn. The sovereign Lord God Almighty controls each and every catastrophic event. And earthquakes are only "the beginning of sorrows". To know how awful the end will be study the book of Revelation.
quote:
The bible says that it rains on both the righteous and the unrighteous and he wasn't just talking about the weather.
And what this teaches us is that God is gracious to all alike sinners and saints. However, that does not preclude God's judgments in any way. Indeed, the Bible is full of warnings to sinners to repent, and if they refuse to repent they are judged. Study Revelation 20.
quote:
If in your opinion God acts in this way why have countries that are cruelest to His children been allowed to continue?? These countries have very strong sons and daughters within there borders who are disowned, abandoned and even tortured for their faith in Christ every day. Is God judging them? Also Haiti is not the only place on earth that practices voodoo and such like.
It is not for me or you or anyone else to explain or justifiy God's dealings with sinners. Keep in mind that while it may appear that the wicked have escaped punishment, that is only superficial. There is a future judgment and future punishments of which you and I have no conception -- the fires of eternal Hell and the torments thereof are beyond human comprehension. But they are reserved for the wicked. While Haiti is not the only place that voodo is practised, it was God's sovereign decision to bring judgment upon that island so that the whole world would take note and repent. Who are we to question this?
quote:
Also in the academic sense maybe you need to look in your school books again and learn how earth quakes happen.
One can certainly find natural explanations for earthquakes, but that does not preclude the hand of God over natural phenomena as and when He chooses to use them for His glory. Again study the book of Revelation, not your textbooks. We are dealing with spiritual matters not merely natural occurrences.
quote:
Sorry i dont mean to be rude but im deeply disturbed by people who say things like Hurricane Katrina, Tsunami and now this earth quake are a direct result of God judgement after Christ because if that is so then to your mind Christ died in vain.
It would appear that you have not really studied your Bible very carefully or extensively. Nowhere in Scripture will you find that unrepentant sinners will not be judged sooner or later. They may either experience judgment on earth or in Hell. Study Jeremiah chapter 25 regarding the judgments to come upon all nations.
Christ did not die in vain, since every sinner who repents and believes on Him shall receive eternal life. God is warning the inhabitants of this earth that except they repent they shall all likewise perish.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 3:42:00 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
Christ did not die in vain, since every sinner who repents and believes on Him shall receive eternal life. God is warning the inhabitants of this earth that except they repent they shall all likewise perish.
They know this how?
Again, God gets no "credit" in their minds for bringing judgment on New Orleans or Haiti if they weren't specifically warned in advance and only a handful of savvy people on the planet are able to figure out their catastrophe came directly from God and only after the fact.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 3:54:27 PM
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lovelylisaaln
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It appears my argument still stands and 2 peter 3 says what is coming when Christ returns, it is us that heartlessly and harshly use tragic events for our own ends which i acknowledge the gospel message is preached but if the receivers of the message develop a right view of God is another thing.
_____________________________
Thou seemest human and divine,
The highest, holiest manhood, thou.
Our wills are ours, we know not how;
Our wills are ours, to make them thine.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 4:35:41 PM
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Eutychus
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2 Peter 3 has an interesting section in verses 7-9:
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
It appears that God is holding off judgment until THE judgment so that the lost may have time to repent before judgment comes.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 7:38:50 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lovelylisaaln
It appears my argument still stands and 2 peter 3 says what is coming when Christ returns, it is us that heartlessly and harshly use tragic events for our own ends which i acknowledge the gospel message is preached but if the receivers of the message develop a right view of God is another thing.
You claimed that God would not judge sinners after the Cross and complained bitterly because someone pointed out the error of your assumption.
Now that you see Scripture states otherwise, you're turning around and saying, "Yes, He does judge but only when Christ returns." But that is still a judgment after the Cross, is it not?
Once again, had you carefully studied Scripture, you would have noted that there will be numerous judgments before the 2nd coming of Christ. Please spend some time in the book of Revelation before you respond.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/29/2010 7:46:49 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
2 Peter 3 has an interesting section in verses 7-9:
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
It appears that God is holding off judgment until THE judgment so that the lost may have time to repent before judgment comes.
Euty,
Your comment above should have stated "God is holding off the fiery judgment of burning up the entire earth until THE judgment..."
But that does not mean that other judgments will not be poured out upon this earth.
While the burning up of the earth is the final judgment before the establishment of a new heavens and a new earth, there are numerous other severe judgements described in Revelation chapters 6 through 20, and we are already living in the period corresponding to the first four seals.
These judgments are corroborated in OT passages also, such as Jeremiah 25.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/30/2010 4:06:33 AM
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lovelylisaaln
Posts: 94
Joined: 7/15/2009
Status: offline
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No Ezra Eutys verse was from the bible that is what it says even in mine.
I think you are understanding me wrong i DO believe judgement is COMING the fires of hell and so on but we live in the present time and God is holding and reserving his judgement until Jesus comes that is what is stated in Peter. Because he wants that none should perish. God is a loving God his not up there watching with a big stick ready to zap you his full of love, grace and mercy, granted he does correct us but that is via His Holy spirit he doesnt zap us with a bolt of lightning. Im sorry that you are being taught differently. YES he wants us to fear him but not to be consumed with fear he wants and asks that we love him and yes take note of Eutys also excellent posts. What credit does God get for periodically zapping the odd city that takes his fancy. Do you not think thats the devil trying to deceive you. How can we humanly love a God that behaves like that... This is not God acting this is man made theories that have been constructed by people who do not understand everything but try to.. We will not understand until we meet Jesus face to face and He will tell us.
Our opinions may be different but we are equally saved.
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Thou seemest human and divine,
The highest, holiest manhood, thou.
Our wills are ours, we know not how;
Our wills are ours, to make them thine.
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RE: BBC article - natural distasters and God - 1/30/2010 1:31:06 PM
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lightbeamrider
Posts: 323
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
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It's not an ''age old question'' as stated by to OP. At least not biblically. From the sin of Adam in which the ground is cursed in Adam's place through Revelation, the theme is consistent. The sin of man causes natural disasters, flood, earthquakes, fire from Heaven, etc. God, ''visits the iniquity of the fathers on the children and on the third and forth generation of those who hate,'' Him.
We assume God loves everybody but since scripture clearly states God hated Esau, the question remains is Esau the only person God had hatred for? I don't think so.
Most can tell the person who wrote the article in the first post is another biblical illiterate since Gen. 3:17 sets the stage for natural disasters and sin of man. One example, the article quotes Job, ''they are tricked that trusted.'' (i don't have my Concordance with me so i did not check this out to see if they got that verse right) Then states ''God says nothing to rebut the charges.'' The fact remains God does respond to Job with a series of 70 questions which concludes...''Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty?'' Job is so befuddled he shuts his mouth which is probably a good thing in matters concerning God.
''Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Job 38:2
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