RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
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[Poll]
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How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
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| Pre-Trib |
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| Post-trib |
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| Mid-trib |
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Total Votes : 74
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(last vote on : 1/6/2009 7:44:26 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/1/2007 2:09:58 PM
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Lapidoth
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No man knows the day or hour also refers to the way God begins
His time and appointments.
Each month is started with the first sliver of the new moon.
No one knows "exactly" when that is. So, biblically there are witnesses
that report and the announcement is made by the blowing of the
shofar (trumpet). That's when the Rosh Hodesh begins.
Our western thinking keeps us from fully understanding the meanings in
the Bible. And our mixed up eschatology keeps us even further from
understanding it.
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BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/1/2007 7:58:04 PM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
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OK,
quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
If "no one knows the day or hour" , wouldn't that seem to support pretribbers?
If the Antichrist shows up, they can count the days until mid trib. Once he shows his true colors, you know exactly how long until the Lord returns.
When the Lord returns, it will be at a certain moment in time. Right now, you and I are different time zones. You in California are and hour earlier than me in Arizona. Now, what hour will it be for each of us when Jesus gsathers us?
Now let's look at a saint on the other side of the International date line. What day will it be for that saint?
But this did not change the "moment" that Jesus Comes does it.
Thus, we will not be able to calculate the hour or the day. Close, but no cigar.
Back to mid trib seeing you are stuck there................give some text with that timeframe?
Jesus says "immediately after the trib of those days......He Comes....................period. How can you not see this simple chrono?
Cosmic signs
The trumpet
The gathering
All at the SECOND Coming which is after the trib.
YBIC,
Frankie
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/1/2007 10:03:25 PM
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Okami
Posts: 562
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So you are saying there is no rapture, just his second coming.
Where do people get the rapture theory from?
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/1/2007 10:40:40 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
Jesus says "immediately after the trib of those days......He Comes....................period. How can you not see this simple chrono?
Frankie,
So you are saying the whole week is tribulation?
Seems like I heard once there was tribulation, great tribulation and God's Wrath involved.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/2/2007 6:00:54 AM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
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OK,
quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
So you are saying there is no rapture, just his second coming.
Where do people get the rapture theory from?
I said nothing of the kind. The rapture is the "gathering" at the SC. See 1 TH 4. Our resurrection happens just before we leave gravity to the air. It all culminates at the SC..................
"immediately after the trib of those days".
Frankie
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/2/2007 6:20:00 AM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
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Bob,
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Jesus says "immediately after the trib of those days......He Comes....................period. How can you not see this simple chrono?
Frankie,
So you are saying the whole week is tribulation?
Seems like I heard once there was tribulation, great tribulation and God's Wrath involved.
Bob
You are making me gun shy in my communication skills.............................
How did you get that idea from my above quote?
The GT begins in the midst of the week after the AOD is set up. It is 3 1/2 years or 1260 days in duration.
Christ comes after the trib of those days. It is the DOL. It is our gathering by rapture. No gap of any days between rapture and resurrection and SC.
It happens at the end of the age.
It happens on the last day of this age.
It happens at the last trump.
It happens in a twinkling of an eye.
It happens in a particular moment only known to the Lord.
It happens after our gathering. Then Eternal wrath is poured upon the wicked. Seals, trumps and bowls all culminate at the end.
The wrath of the trib is temporary...........the final wrath is after He touches down.
Hope this is clear and I have texts to back up every word, though they have already been quoted.
Frankie
< Message edited by chalkstc -- 11/2/2007 6:27:06 AM >
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/2/2007 10:36:17 AM
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breanne
Posts: 101
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chalkstc
Bob,
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Jesus says "immediately after the trib of those days......He Comes....................period. How can you not see this simple chrono?
Frankie,
So you are saying the whole week is tribulation?
Seems like I heard once there was tribulation, great tribulation and God's Wrath involved.
Bob
You are making me gun shy in my communication skills.............................
How did you get that idea from my above quote?
The GT begins in the midst of the week after the AOD is set up. It is 3 1/2 years or 1260 days in duration.
Christ comes after the trib of those days. It is the DOL. It is our gathering by rapture. No gap of any days between rapture and resurrection and SC.
It happens at the end of the age.
It happens on the last day of this age.
It happens at the last trump.
It happens in a twinkling of an eye.
It happens in a particular moment only known to the Lord.
It happens after our gathering. Then Eternal wrath is poured upon the wicked. Seals, trumps and bowls all culminate at the end.
The wrath of the trib is temporary...........the final wrath is after He touches down.
Hope this is clear and I have texts to back up every word, though they have already been quoted.
Frankie
AAHH! All the DOL, SC, AOD... I'm so bugged by those acronyms or whatever. I don't know what they all stand for unless I really think about it. But they just bug me. ROFL! Okay, end expressing frustration.
Amen to your timeline there, Frankie.
_____________________________
Previously known as:
flannel_pants /
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/2/2007 1:28:43 PM
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ZAROVE
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/24/2007
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I didn't vote, as I can't vote.
Aftr all, my option isnt on there. I know I know, you have PRe-mid-and post Tribulaiton Rapture. Whats missing?
Well, as someone else asked another, Don't you beleive int he Rapture? The short answr is no, I don't.
I do beleive thee will be a Second Comign of JEsus the Lord and Saviour, but that's it.Its the Second Coming. When all are judged.
The Rapture of the Church was a theory that came about int he 1830's, and isn't well known outside the North American Contenent, and is not part of Historic Christian teaching. In fact, its unknown in all of christian history.
Most of the verses that talk of he Raptute are also not nessisarily about the Rapture.
SO...
I don't think there will be a Raptue at all, and that is my vote.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/2/2007 4:53:15 PM
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breanne
Posts: 101
Joined: 9/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ZAROVE
I didn't vote, as I can't vote.
Aftr all, my option isnt on there. I know I know, you have PRe-mid-and post Tribulaiton Rapture. Whats missing?
Well, as someone else asked another, Don't you beleive int he Rapture? The short answr is no, I don't.
I do beleive thee will be a Second Comign of JEsus the Lord and Saviour, but that's it.Its the Second Coming. When all are judged.
The Rapture of the Church was a theory that came about int he 1830's, and isn't well known outside the North American Contenent, and is not part of Historic Christian teaching. In fact, its unknown in all of christian history.
Most of the verses that talk of he Raptute are also not nessisarily about the Rapture.
SO...
I don't think there will be a Raptue at all, and that is my vote.
Hahaha! Oh my goodness, I'm sorry but that made me laugh and cry at the same time.
Dude. Then what do you call Rev. 14:14-16 ??? UH DUH! THE RAPTURE!!
_____________________________
Previously known as:
flannel_pants /
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/2/2007 7:25:26 PM
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ZAROVE
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/24/2007
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Actually I don;t call Revelation 14:14-16 The Rapture.
Neither did any of the Church Fathers, or any subsequent theologian up until the mid 19th century, so I'm harldy alone.
STarting at Verse 13.
13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14: And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15: And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16: And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17: And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18: And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19: And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20: And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
None of these verses outline Rapture theology.
Noen say that Christians will mysteriosuly dissapear, leavign behind those who had not becme Christians to deal with the Anti-Christ.
It speaks only of a Harvest, which I do beeliv ein. But this is a generalised event, hppenign to the just and unjust alike. THosee who are Christainand those who are not will be togather until this event, and the Christains will be harvested out of the nonChristians at htis event. But it snot "The raptutre". Its "The judgement".
A final seperation of the Wheat formt he Chaffe at the end of the world, when all are to stand before Christ and be judged.
Not soem event in which CHristaisn are taken bodily to Hevaen and others lef ton Earth.
Rather, this is a Harvest of SOuls.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 11:24:13 AM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
Joined: 5/13/2005
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Zar,
quote:
The Rapture of the Church was a theory that came about int he 1830's, and isn't well known outside the North American Contenent, and is not part of Historic Christian teaching. In fact, its unknown in all of christian history.
Most of the verses that talk of he Raptute are also not nessisarily about the Rapture.
SO...
I don't think there will be a Raptue at all, and that is my vote.
You got your P's and Q's mixed up..................there will not be a pretrib rapture, but a rapture there will be. Don't diminish God's Word with ignorance of the texts. (no offence here, but ignorance is not stupidity, but lack of knowlege)
The word is "harpazo" from the Greek. It means to seize violently by force.........hence, Paul's phrase................"CAUGHT UP".
"STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, a workmen needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". sayeth the Apostle.
When you are ready for some meat, say on.......................
YBIC,
Frankie
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 12:10:52 PM
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ZAROVE
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/24/2007
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quote:
You got your P's and Q's mixed up..................there will not be a pretrib rapture, but a rapture there will be. Don't diminish God's Word with ignorance of the texts. (no offence here, but ignorance is not stupidity, but lack of knowlege)
I am aware of what Ignorance means. But I see no evidence for a Rapture in the Scriptures,be it PRe-mid-or post Trib.
In fact,I don't even see a Tribulation.
I happen to be an Amillinialist, By the way.
Thus the Entire Dispensational Modle Is not used.
I see CHrists Second COming as precicely that, the Second Coming, and at this the judgement of the living and dead.
And such an event may transpire at any time now,from the time I finish typing this post, to a millinium from now.
quote:
The word is "harpazo" from the Greek. It means to seize violently by force.........hence, Paul's phrase................"CAUGHT UP".
The passage from Two Thessalonians where this is usually taken from isn't talking of a Rapture either. neither is the passage where "Two men are in a field,and one is taken".
quote:
"STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, a workmen needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". sayeth the Apostle.
When you are ready for some meat, say on.......................
And now I am treated as some sort of Novice.
The Rapture has become too omnipresent, methinks, in some Quarters.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 2:14:35 PM
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Okami
Posts: 562
Joined: 9/26/2007
From: California
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I'm still trying to understand all 3, pre mid and post. I never did much study on it, but am constantly hearing pros for all sides.
According to most of you, pre and mid are non existant.
But when jesus returns, he comes with a multitude behind him, which I assumed was us.
When is it we are gathered? Are we instantly zapped to his side with new bodies and automatically know what to do?
_____________________________
My ancestors were humans. Sorry to hear about yours.
Bible answer men the way it should be done.
No shows focused on their books, their guests books, nor religion bashing. Just calls and answers.
http://www.csnradio.com/tema
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 8:03:23 PM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
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Zar,
quote:
ORIGINAL: ZAROVE
quote:
You got your P's and Q's mixed up..................there will not be a pretrib rapture, but a rapture there will be. Don't diminish God's Word with ignorance of the texts. (no offence here, but ignorance is not stupidity, but lack of knowlege)
I am aware of what Ignorance means. But I see no evidence for a Rapture in the Scriptures,be it PRe-mid-or post Trib.
In fact,I don't even see a Tribulation.
I happen to be an Amillinialist, By the way.
Thus the Entire Dispensational Modle Is not used.
I see CHrists Second COming as precicely that, the Second Coming, and at this the judgement of the living and dead.
And such an event may transpire at any time now,from the time I finish typing this post, to a millinium from now.
quote:
The word is "harpazo" from the Greek. It means to seize violently by force.........hence, Paul's phrase................"CAUGHT UP".
The passage from Two Thessalonians where this is usually taken from isn't talking of a Rapture either. neither is the passage where "Two men are in a field,and one is taken".
quote:
"STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, a workmen needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". sayeth the Apostle.
When you are ready for some meat, say on.......................
And now I am treated as some sort of Novice.
The Rapture has become too omnipresent, methinks, in some Quarters.
You said a mouthful............"you don't SEE"!
By the way, the harpazo/rapture passage is in 1 TH and not 2 TH. I guess you didn't see that either or just a misquote?
I also think you have less pages in your copy of the scriptures imo. The gathering in Mat 24 and the gathering in 2 TH 2 and the "caught up" of 1 TH 4 are all on my pages in my Bible.
Choose to ignore them if you will, but that does not mean they are not there.
YBIC,
Frankie
PS I am not a dispensationalist but yet believe we are "caught up" at the SC. Not to heaven, but to the air just before Christ finishes His descent.
Paul tells us time and again "not to be ignorant". I said no less, nor did I insinuate you are a novice. I asked you to bring meat to the table..........that means book, chapter and verses to bolster your viewpoint. Blanket statements don't cut it.
As for Amillenialism. In order to be against something, there must be something to be against...........hence, "A" means no millennium. Yet the Scriptures teach there is one.
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 8:12:59 PM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
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OK,
quote:
According to most of you, pre and mid are non existant.
But when jesus returns, he comes with a multitude behind him, which I assumed was us.
When is it we are gathered? Are we instantly zapped to his side with new bodies and automatically know what to do?
The first step to understanding is to question. Yes, most here do not agree with pretrib or midtrib.
Why? Because we believe what scripture says about that timing.
Read Mat 24/1 TH 4/ 1 Th 5/ 2 TH 1/ 2 TH 2 and 1 COR 15 one right after another.
Take a pad and list some similarities of events and chronology.
Get back to me and tell me what you see or ask some pertenant questions.
Sure things............
Christ is Coming
We are gathered
The timing is given
After we are gathered, He comes to judge the wicked.
He sets up the millenial reign and we reign with Him
It goes on, but we are speaking of the gathering via rapture.
Thx,
Frankie
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 8:13:18 PM
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ZAROVE
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/24/2007
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quote:
You said a mouthful............"you don't SEE"!
Why is it that a disagreement in Tehology means I am blind? THis is why I tendnto to talk ofteno Evangelicals...
quote:
By the way, the harpazo/rapture passage is in 1 TH and not 2 TH. I guess you didn't see that either or just a misquote?
A mistype.
quote:
I also think you have less pages in your copy of the scriptures imo. The gathering in Mat 24 and the gathering in 2 TH 2 and the "caught up" of 1 TH 4 are all on my pages in my Bible.
Choose to ignore them if you will, but that does not mean they are not there.
My Bible likely has morepages than yours, actually. However,do you relaly think this manipulation tactic willwork?
I'm not ignoring those passages, but I don't see them as connecte din any way, shape, or form to the Rapture of the CHurch.
Simply because I am not a Dispensationalist,and am an Amillenilaist , doens't mean I ignore passages that to you clealry show the Rapture. I simply have a diffefernt understandign of them.
quote:
YBIC,
Frankie
PS I am not a dispensationalist but yet believe we are "caught up" at the SC. Not to heaven, but to the air just before Christ finishes His descent.
Paul tells us time and again "not to be ignorant". I said no less, nor did I insinuate you are a novice. I asked you to bring meat to the table..........that means book, chapter and verses to bolster your viewpoint. Blanket statements don't cut it.
I just introduced my line of thinking, did you relaly expect a lot form this, and in a poll thread?
quote:
As for Amillenialism. In order to be against something, there must be something to be against...........hence, "A" means no millennium. Yet the Scriptures teach there is one.
Yeah and techniclaly Amillenialism is a Misnomer. We're int he Millineum.
Amillenial beleifs tend to say that thee is no Future Kingdomto be established, thus the Millinial Reign of Christ is not in the Future.
I woudlmaintain that this is the Millenial reign,and CHrist rules his Kingdom now. The Kingdom is the Church.
The Second COming is Judgement day.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/3/2007 8:17:16 PM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
Joined: 5/13/2005
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ZAR,
quote:
ORIGINAL: ZAROVE
quote:
You said a mouthful............"you don't SEE"!
Why is it that a disagreement in Tehology means I am blind? THis is why I tendnto to talk ofteno Evangelicals...
quote:
By the way, the harpazo/rapture passage is in 1 TH and not 2 TH. I guess you didn't see that either or just a misquote?
A mistype.
quote:
I also think you have less pages in your copy of the scriptures imo. The gathering in Mat 24 and the gathering in 2 TH 2 and the "caught up" of 1 TH 4 are all on my pages in my Bible.
Choose to ignore them if you will, but that does not mean they are not there.
My Bible likely has morepages than yours, actually. However,do you relaly think this manipulation tactic willwork?
I'm not ignoring those passages, but I don't see them as connecte din any way, shape, or form to the Rapture of the CHurch.
Simply because I am not a Dispensationalist,and am an Amillenilaist , doens't mean I ignore passages that to you clealry show the Rapture. I simply have a diffefernt understandign of them.
quote:
YBIC,
Frankie
PS I am not a dispensationalist but yet believe we are "caught up" at the SC. Not to heaven, but to the air just before Christ finishes His descent.
Paul tells us time and again "not to be ignorant". I said no less, nor did I insinuate you are a novice. I asked you to bring meat to the table..........that means book, chapter and verses to bolster your viewpoint. Blanket statements don't cut it.
I just introduced my line of thinking, did you relaly expect a lot form this, and in a poll thread?
quote:
As for Amillenialism. In order to be against something, there must be something to be against...........hence, "A" means no millennium. Yet the Scriptures teach there is one.
Yeah and techniclaly Amillenialism is a Misnomer. We're int he Millineum.
Amillenial beleifs tend to say that thee is no Future Kingdomto be established, thus the Millinial Reign of Christ is not in the Future.
I woudlmaintain that this is the Millenial reign,and CHrist rules his Kingdom now. The Kingdom is the Church.
The Second COming is Judgement day.
Thx for the reply, but I can see we will never agree, so I'll leave you to your concrete view.
blessings,
Frankie
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/4/2007 6:23:39 PM
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breanne
Posts: 101
Joined: 9/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ZAROVE
quote:
By the way, the harpazo/rapture passage is in 1 TH and not 2 TH. I guess you didn't see that either or just a misquote?
A mistype.
Answer me something. What exactly are you saying is a mistype? Cause I posted a response, but because I misunderstood what was said, it was deleted being taken as a personal attack. So please help me understand what you're calling a mistype.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ZAROVE
quote:
As for Amillenialism. In order to be against something, there must be something to be against...........hence, "A" means no millennium. Yet the Scriptures teach there is one.
Yeah and techniclaly Amillenialism is a Misnomer. We're int he Millineum.
Amillenial beleifs tend to say that thee is no Future Kingdomto be established, thus the Millinial Reign of Christ is not in the Future.
I woudlmaintain that this is the Millenial reign,and CHrist rules his Kingdom now. The Kingdom is the Church.
The Second COming is Judgement day.
The Millennial Reign is... eh, now? Hmm. That can't be right. Because doesn't it say that in the millennial reign that the lion and the lamb will lay together. As far as I can see, I don't see any lions and lambs laying together. Nor do I see any peace on this world, in fact just the opposite. So how can we be in the Millennial reign? Of course Christ rules his kingdom, his kingdom is in heaven. The millennial reign is when he reigns ON EARTH with his followers. I think you got some scriptures mixed up there, brother.
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Previously known as:
flannel_pants /
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/4/2007 8:11:18 PM
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ZAROVE
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/24/2007
Status: offline
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Actually I'm not a Protestant ,I am from the Restoration movement, and a Church known as the Church of Christ.
That said, Bre-
The Mistype was the location fot he quote.I had said 2Thesselonians,and it wasapparnetly in 1 Thesselonians.
And the Lion and Lamb quotaiton is form Isaiah11, and doesn'tmeniton a Millineal reign.
It;sspeaking of the New HEaven and NEw Earth.
It is my understanding that Jesus rules the Earth now via the Church, and that the Church is his Kingdom. It was Established on Pentecost, and through it he reigns.
THus there is very little End-times focus in what theology I hold.The End times arebasiclaly JEsus returning, and then Judgement day.
There is no Anticipated Anti-CHrist ruleforSeven YEars,and no Establishment of an earthly Kingdom by Jeuss at the future, for their would be no need as he has the Kingdom already.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/4/2007 8:37:26 PM
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chalkstc
Posts: 416
Joined: 5/13/2005
Status: offline
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Zar,
quote:
There is no Anticipated Anti-CHrist ruleforSeven YEars,and no Establishment of an earthly Kingdom by Jeuss at the future, for their would be no need as he has the Kingdom already.
Please interpret these texts..................
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Does the church have this power now?
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
KJV
Is the church ruling with the rod of iron now?
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne , even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne .
Christ is still at the right hand of the Father's throne. His Throne is when He Comes. Thus the Church still has a future promise of sitting with Christ on His throne................
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory :
KJV
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory , ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
Who are you reigning over right now?
Note: we are at present kings and priests but the reigning on the earth is still future.
Amill just doesn't cut it imo. Problem is you only see the spritual reign of Christ in the Church but ignore the reign of Christ over all nations with the Church. See Rev 11:15 to the end of the chapter.
Frankie
_____________________________
Prov 27:17 iron sharpeneth iron as a man the countenance of his friend.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/4/2007 8:56:49 PM
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ZAROVE
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/24/2007
Status: offline
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Frankie, this is a poll thread. I'll open a new thread to discuss mybeleifs soemtime this week, OK?
As for the below, I'll do so, but why must Amelinialism always be treated so poorly by Millinianerians?
quote:
Please interpret these texts..................
OK/
quote:
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Does the church have this power now?
Tnis is a singel verse, not in its original context. The text refers to the power a Christian has if he perseveres, and is embedded in adeeply allegoical,symbolic text ( Look at the rest of the CHapter).
To understand my itnepetatiin,though,you'd have to understand that I do not see the Revelation as an End TImes Prophecy either.
I see it as an ongoing story of how the Churhc ovrcomes evil, and how beleivers ae given authority in this life by their association to Christ the King.
And in a way the MddleA ges did see asort of rulership amongst Christaisn by Nations, and all the Monarhies of Europe where based on Christendom.
quote:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
KJV
Is the church ruling with the rod of iron now?
See above.
In a way it is. The CHurhc has more moral authority,and mroe sporitualpower, than does anythign else.
And the verse speaks of Individuals.
And the Revelationis not about the future.
quote:
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne , even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne .
Christ is still at the right hand of the Father's throne. His Throne is when He Comes. Thus the Church still has a future promise of sitting with Christ on His throne................
Thats Editorialising.
I'd say that Jeuss is currently on the Throne of David, and Rulign Eternally his Kingdom, which is the Church.
Simply declarign that he hasn't a throne yet doens't make it so.
Nor does it show the alternate interpretaitn wrong.
quote:
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory :
KJV
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory , ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV
Both fo these happeend at Pentecost.
The Apostles where given the Authority to Judge the Twelve Tribes of ISrael, and Jesus alreayd sits upon his Throne of GLory.
Here's another verse for you.
Mark 9:1: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Jesus said this to men who lived 2000 years ago.THey are all dead now. Unless Jesus made a False Prophecy, his Kingdom came in thier lifetime.
quote:
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
Who are you reigning over right now?
It didn't say one had to reign over anyone, only riegn on the Earth. In the Vicory CHrist Jesus gives us, we reign, in a Spiritual sence, and live as rulers,not as slaves to sin.
quote:
Note: we are at present kings and priests but the reigning on the earth is still future.
No it snot, and the book of revelation can't be the future for us now.
It opens with this.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
SHortly. As in soon.
The events in the Revelation aren't about the end times, but started soon after John wrote the book.
THey describe a SPiritual victory over evil and sin.
quote:
Amill just doesn't cut it imo.
But if you don't even understand it, thats not exaclty an argument.
quote:
Problem is you only see the spritual reign of Christ in the Church but ignore the reign of Christ over all nations with the Church. See Rev 11:15 to the end of the chapter.
I also see he book fo Revelation differently than you, and the intepretation won't be the same for CHapter 11.
< Message edited by ZAROVE -- 11/4/2007 9:45:54 PM >
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 11/5/2007 10:34:52 AM
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breanne
Posts: 101
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline
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Okay, so let me ask you this then. Do you think you are right? What if you're wrong?
_____________________________
Previously known as:
flannel_pants /
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12
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