RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories more legit than the others around the world?
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/9/2010 3:18:30 PM
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creaton
Posts: 180
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ohioman1972
Does this "why would God" or "myth and superstition" talk really belong in the science thread? Shouldn't this go to the philosophy thread?
What do you think of this statement:
"I didn't realize you were such a closet Calvinist, tacitus! Would you be interested in sharing this doctrinal perspective on the Calvinism/Arminianism one-stop thread? I would love to show some of the supralapsarians there how worthless their theology really is! "
Does that sound science related to you?
Or is non-science related material fine as long as it comes from a browbeating brother?
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/9/2010 6:34:44 PM
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Ohioman1972
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quote:
ORIGINAL: creaton
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ohioman1972
Does this "why would God" or "myth and superstition" talk really belong in the science thread? Shouldn't this go to the philosophy thread?
What do you think of this statement:
"I didn't realize you were such a closet Calvinist, tacitus! Would you be interested in sharing this doctrinal perspective on the Calvinism/Arminianism one-stop thread? I would love to show some of the supralapsarians there how worthless their theology really is! "
Does that sound science related to you?
Or is non-science related material fine as long as it comes from a browbeating brother?
Hmmm that was an invitation to go to another thread..?? I'm confused.
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/9/2010 6:37:09 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5608
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quote:
I'm confused. You're doing just fine, Ohioman. It's some others who are way past "confused"...
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/9/2010 9:12:28 PM
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bolt.
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The relationship between God's omniscience and our freedom is interesting in relations to the first sin...
Knowing that Eve and Adam would not have taken the opportunity to choose to live in harmony with their Creator does not mean that the opportunity did not exist in the temporal sense.
"Hope" was probably the wrong word to use, but neither did God knowing the choice to sin that would be made by His creations mean that he "engineered" that choice.
It would be silly to say that a spectator "engineered" the Olympic medal game, simply based on the fact that he saw the first broadcast and all his friends were watching the re-run for the first time. It's still the players that did the loosing, regardless of who knew about it when.
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 12:08:43 AM
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RSchorne
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So you don't think God knew Adam's choice before He created him?
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 4:55:47 AM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
Knowing that Eve and Adam would not have taken the opportunity to choose to live in harmony with their Creator does not mean that the opportunity did not exist in the temporal sense.
I understand that from a limited being's perspective, i.e. Adam and Eve, it would seem like they had free will, but in reality, if the events in the Garden of Eden unfolded as they are described in the Bible, then they were indeed set up to fail, from God's perspective, from the very moment creation happened. There was no other possible outcome. God in his omnipotence could have arranged for creation to unfold any way he chose, but he chose this one (or so says Genesis) so he must have wanted it to happen this way.
quote:
"Hope" was probably the wrong word to use, but neither did God knowing the choice to sin that would be made by His creations mean that he "engineered" that choice.
It would be silly to say that a spectator "engineered" the Olympic medal game, simply based on the fact that he saw the first broadcast and all his friends were watching the re-run for the first time. It's still the players that did the loosing, regardless of who knew about it when.
God is far more than a spectator in this scenario, so I don't think the analogy fits. Omnipotence and omniscience are game changers.
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 8:12:26 AM
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drmark
Posts: 5608
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
So you don't think God knew Adam's choice before He created him? Not all Christians believe that God's "foreknowledge" must result in predetermined events. I can see that several of you have a very narrow understanding of "omniscience".
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 10:39:05 AM
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Strider33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
Knowing that Eve and Adam would not have taken the opportunity to choose to live in harmony with their Creator does not mean that the opportunity did not exist in the temporal sense.
I understand that from a limited being's perspective, i.e. Adam and Eve, it would seem like they had free will, but in reality, if the events in the Garden of Eden unfolded as they are described in the Bible, then they were indeed set up to fail, from God's perspective, from the very moment creation happened. There was no other possible outcome. God in his omnipotence could have arranged for creation to unfold any way he chose, but he chose this one (or so says Genesis) so he must have wanted it to happen this way.
Logic is limiting your thinking.
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 10:52:45 AM
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drmark
Posts: 5608
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quote:
Logic is limiting your thinking. That and his preconceived Calvinistic doctrinal assumptions.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 5:02:13 PM
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RSchorne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
So you don't think God knew Adam's choice before He created him? Not all Christians believe that God's "foreknowledge" must result in predetermined events. I can see that several of you have a very narrow understanding of "omniscience".
I never implied anything about events being predetermined.
I merely asked an opinion about whether or not God knew Adam's decision before He created him.
What do you think?
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 5:17:43 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5608
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
I merely asked an opinion about whether or not God knew Adam's decision before He created him.
What do you think? I believe that God knows all of the contingent possibilities of all His created beings. Adam (and his decision) was non-existent before God created him.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 7:23:41 PM
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RSchorne
Posts: 157
Joined: 1/9/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I merely asked an opinion about whether or not God knew Adam's decision before He created him.
What do you think? I believe that God knows all of the contingent possibilities of all His created beings. Adam (and his decision) was non-existent before God created him.
yes, but do you believe God knew which of the possibilities Adam would choose?
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RE: What makes the Genesis creation and flood stories m... - 3/10/2010 7:39:35 PM
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ta_mosquito
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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Since this thread has left the subject of the OP in the dust, I'm closing it. Please continue discussion about God's foreknowledge and predestination in the Calvinism one-stop thread.
Oh, and cut out the personal attacks. Yes, I see some in the last page of this thread.
Thanks!
Tricia
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