Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Earthquakes, etc.?
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Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Earthqu... - 1/14/2010 9:21:16 PM
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Nutty4God
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Do you think that the weird winter weather and increased, devastating earthquakes signal God's judgment on the United States and the world?
Do you think that these events are happening as part of the Tribulation, or just part of the sequence of events that come before?
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/14/2010 9:25:11 PM
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MrFribbles
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I think they are part of what has always been - terrible disasters that destroy lives. We're just part of the first generation or two that has had modern news resources in place to report these events in almost-real time.
So, to answer your questions -
1. No.
2. Neither.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/14/2010 11:15:06 PM
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KaptZ
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No, I don't think God is causing natural disasters to punish us for our wrong doings.
Now Mother Nature? Considering how poorly we treat her who knows how steamed she might be.....
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/14/2010 11:48:40 PM
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tsnody2001
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I hope you were kidding with that last comment, KaptZ.
But I just got done watching Avatar, and that pretty much seemed to be the message of the movie. Humans are bad, we should be one with/worship Earth. That's a bit off topic, though.
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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 12:05:32 AM
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MoWoe
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In The Book of Revelation God states he is the destroyer of those who pollute the earth. The earth the God of Israel & of all Creation created.
The planet you live upon. The planet God watches & listens to 24 hours a day.
Where now through the increase of knowledge God spoke about but not in any good light through technology a literal Mark of the Beast is possible as well as probable coming through all the worldly Government of the Beast Kingdoms that will make up the Final Government of the Beast of Revelation that many prophetic researchers consider is built through Mystery Babylon.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 12:07:09 AM
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KaptZ
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
I hope you were kidding with that last comment, KaptZ.
Of course! 
Still, as they say- kharma is a 'female dog'. If that's true we humans have a world of hurt headed our way.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 1:12:29 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, MoWoe.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MoWoe
In The Book of Revelation God states he is the destroyer of those who pollute the earth. The earth the God of Israel & of all Creation created.
The planet you live upon. The planet God watches & listens to 24 hours a day.
Where now through the increase of knowledge God spoke about but not in any good light through technology a literal Mark of the Beast is possible as well as probable coming through all the worldly Government of the Beast Kingdoms that will make up the Final Government of the Beast of Revelation that many prophetic researchers consider is built through Mystery Babylon.
I don't know all about what you said, but I do think you are right about our duty to God's Creation. The original job for Adam was as a care-taker of Gan-Eden, and I don't believe that God ever recinded that appointment. Thus, as Adam's children, I believe we still have a responsibility to take care of God's Creation.
All the while I grew up I was taught to (1) respect life, including animal life. If you can't give life to those men and animals who are dead, then you have no business taking that life from them who are living; and (2) cleanliness is next to godliness. A clean environment makes for a healthy environment and an environment that's much more enjoyable.
There's nothing worse, IMO, than to walk down the streets of the projects and see all the broken glass, the bottles, the cans, the papers all over the roads, the sidewalks, the grass, and in the rivers, streams, lakes, and ocean-fronts. Some people have such little concern for our world that they treat the whole world as their trashcan and ashtray! Furthermore, these are streets that little children have to walk on their way to school! I just cringe at the possible injuries and infections they could incur!
So, yeah, I think God could be punishing us for our negligence in taking care of His world. No, I don't believe they are part of the Tribulation, per se, but I DO believe that they are part of the events that come before the Tribulation, because I still believe in a 3.5-year series of judgments on this earth yet to come.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 8:49:32 AM
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ManimalX
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God has used "natural" disasters in the past for judgment (global flood, earthquakes, presumably meteors, many of the Egyptian plagues, etc etc), and He will do so in the future for judgment (earthquakes, floods, famines, droughts, plagues). It seems to me that if He did it before and will do it again that it isn't hard to imagine Him using "natural" disasters now.
The one big difference is that in the past people KNEW why they were being judged by God and seeing His wrath, and in the future people will KNOW why they are being judged by God and seeing His wrath, while in the present there is no specific warning from God to "repent or else". God hasn't sent a prophet to nation X saying, "Nation X repent of Y or God will judge you with Z".
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 9:22:25 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, ManimalX.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
God has used "natural" disasters in the past for judgment (global flood, earthquakes, presumably meteors, many of the Egyptian plagues, etc etc), and He will do so in the future for judgment (earthquakes, floods, famines, droughts, plagues). It seems to me that if He did it before and will do it again that it isn't hard to imagine Him using "natural" disasters now.
The one big difference is that in the past people KNEW why they were being judged by God and seeing His wrath, and in the future people will KNOW why they are being judged by God and seeing His wrath, while in the present there is no specific warning from God to "repent or else". God hasn't sent a prophet to nation X saying, "Nation X repent of Y or God will judge you with Z".
Right! Usually in the past, there was a prophet who at least told people WHY they were being judged! Today, not so much. (Unless you count Pat Robertson a prophet; frankly, I have a bit of a problem doing so. Now, he's "reminding" Haiti of their long-standing [back in the 1800s] compact with the Devil! While that may be true, I don't know whether it's right to kick a person when they're down, although sometimes when a person is down is the best time to encourage them to look up! They don't need an "I told you so" right now; what they need is a "Let me help you, and here's what you do now...".)
Good parenting sets the boundaries first, then disciplines the child who over-steps the boundaries. Seems to me that God should at least be a good Father (and He is).
On the other hand, since there is some debate on whether God (who is the Judge of all) has to be a "good parent" to those who AREN'T His children (children of the Devil) and therefore may not be duty-bound to telegraph His punches, perhaps He didn't have to warn Haiti and others of impending doom!
Nevertheless, it is OUR duty, as children of God, to show those hurting the kind of God we call "Father" by showing them OUR compassion, in turn showing them the caliber and love of our Father.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 1:24:02 PM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
God hasn't sent a prophet to nation X saying, "Nation X repent of Y or God will judge you with Z".
Are you sure?
Some call them crazy, mentally unstable, etc.. They are laughed at, and mentally, verbally and physically abused. Some live on the streets in rags and are ignored because they don't have clean hair and nice shoes like us. Sure, there ARE crazy and mentally ill people who live on the streets, or otherwise, that are exactly that, and do not speak in the name of the Lord. But can we be SURE that God has not sent some of these people in to the world? For we are told in the Scriptures that we may be entertaining angels unawares... who is to say that those angels have to fit into our preconceived ideas of what they should be like. Also, they don't even have to be angels... you can be sure that Jeremiah was laughed at, I KNOW people thought he was crazy and out of his mind.
Are you sure?
< Message edited by tsnody2001 -- 1/15/2010 2:15:21 PM >
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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 1:48:04 PM
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cow451
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No and No.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 2:01:54 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
Are you sure?
There would be two things that would make it doubtful that it's a word from God.
1. The explanation comes after the fact, and/or
2. The majority of the people effected were not told it's coming in clear detail, why, and that it's from God.
OT Prophets were often hated and mistreated, but not all had their sanity in question. But even if they were considered crazy by the ungodly, the word of God's judgment was widely and clearly proclaimed before the calamity.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 2:35:26 PM
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tsnody2001
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Just because we haven't heard of prophets being broadcast on CNN and FOX News doesn't mean there aren't any out there warning of God's judgment. And those who are are labeled as heartless and cold and are rejected. I am not claiming that all who claim to be prophets are prophets. Well, in a way they are - false prophets.
Regarding your numbered points, Euty: 1) That is not always the case, and 2) there are and have been MANY in this country and all around the world who have warned the people of God's coming judgment (not just End of Days type judgments), why they are coming, and that it is from God. Some turn out to be false, while others do not.
But most generally, when God judges, he deals with nations and cities either because of the wickedness of the rulers of those nations or cities, or because of the wickedness of the general populace.
I'm not saying that every occurrence of disaster is God's judgment... Jesus was clear that is not the case. But He also said that "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 2:46:49 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
Just because we haven't heard of prophets being broadcast on CNN and FOX News doesn't mean there aren't any out there warning of God's judgment.
God wasn't timid about spreading word of His impending judgment in the Bible, so I not only don't expect Him to change now, I'd expect Him to make use of the mass media to do so.
The quote you use from Luke 13 seems to me at least to be leveled at hypocrites who produce no fruit, not raining disaster upon the heathen.
In any case, I'm no longer inclined to be a member of the Falling Sky Club while so many around me need to hear the Gospel of Jesus and God's Amazing Grace.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/15/2010 6:16:21 PM
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Stormcrow
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quote:
In The Book of Revelation God states he is the destroyer of those who pollute the earth. The earth the God of Israel & of all Creation created.
The planet you live upon. The planet God watches & listens to 24 hours a day.
Chapter and verse for this Revelation reference, please?
Personally, I don't think God cares nearly as much about this planet as He does the people He put on it. Nowehere in the scriptures that I read does it say, "God watches the planet." It does say, for instance, He is "attentive" to the prayers of His people. (II Ch. 7:15).
In fact, in Revelation we're told "THEN I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more." (Rev. 21:1)
And Peter writes this:
First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water, through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2Peter 3:3-7
Not quite sure where you're coming from with this stuff, but it might help us understand if you explained what you believe in clear, concise language.
As for what I believe, you can read this, the Apostle's Creed:
quote:
I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. AMEN.
Agree or disagree with the statements of faith quoted above?
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/19/2010 6:55:24 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
Just because we haven't heard of prophets being broadcast on CNN and FOX News doesn't mean there aren't any out there warning of God's judgment.
God wasn't timid about spreading word of His impending judgment in the Bible, so I not only don't expect Him to change now, I'd expect Him to make use of the mass media to do so.
The quote you use from Luke 13 seems to me at least to be leveled at hypocrites who produce no fruit, not raining disaster upon the heathen.
In any case, I'm no longer inclined to be a member of the Falling Sky Club while so many around me need to hear the Gospel of Jesus and God's Amazing Grace.
Greetings
quote:
The quote you use from Luke 13 seems to me at least to be leveled at hypocrites who produce no fruit, not raining disaster upon the heathen.
If we look at Jesus example of the multitudes of healing that took place as He ministered... and in like manner.... as we are now His body in the earth....
In the likeness of ?=John 3:18....Has one ever considered that not producing good fruit "causes" disaster upon the heathen...
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him… “Should not perish,”
You see… the truth is that we His Church are the only means keeping disaster from coming upon "the heathen
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth …….[will let], until he be Taken out of… the way.
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth....
LG
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/19/2010 10:32:10 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
Right! Usually in the past, there was a prophet who at least told people WHY they were being judged! Today, not so much.
The reason we have no prophet today is because the Prophet who would come as prophesied by Moses (Deut. 17:18-19), has already come and prophesied about the last days, and also told us the reason for these earthquakes and pestilences. Since Christ has already told us WHY sinners are being judged, we do not need another prophet at this time.
The problem is that (1) we do not want to believe Him when He speaks of judgment and (2) we want to maintain the same attitude to natural disasters as those who know not Christ -- simply remove God from this equation, since after all God would not judge anyone, would He? This is just like the evolutionist who seeks to remove God from creation.
The Lord Jesus Christ Himself is that Prophet who said in Matthew 24:7 & 8:
For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be FAMINES, AND PESTILENCES, AND EARTHQUAKES in diverse places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
The Lord Jesus has told us prophetically that these are "the beginning of sorrows", since they are only the tip of the iceberg. God has revealed in the book of the Revelation (a prophetic book which is also the Revelation of Jesus Christ) that there will be even greater and more devastating natural disasters and all these are the judgments of God against sin and against sinners.
Note that the sixth seal judgments begin with "A GREAT EARTHQUAKE" (Rev. 6:12) and when the 7th trumpet sounds (Rev.11:19) "there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, AND AN EARTHQUAKE, and great hail".
Therefore to dismiss these events as mere "Mother Nature" (which in fact is a phrase that seeks to banish God from His creation, since there is no such thing as "Mother Nature" unless you are an unbeliever) is to say that God is a liar.
< Message edited by Ezra -- 1/19/2010 10:40:24 PM >
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/19/2010 11:20:16 PM
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tsnody2001
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Who said anything about Mother Nature?
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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/20/2010 2:02:15 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Ezra.
Basically, I agree with you on your points. Yeshua`s explanation is enough of a prophecy to explain all that comes on the earth until He returns, but the problem with an exponentially growing curve (the number of earthquakes growing, for instance) is that one doesn't know the extent of the growth. When will such growth ultimately lead to His return? This is why some members of this forum have such a problem with all the hype and hooplah of current events signalling the Return of our Lord! Sure, it's getting bad, but how bad can it get? How bad will it get before He returns? How bad MUST it get before enough is enough?
Thus, while His prophecy is true, it is not the means by which we can judge WHEN He will come back. Sinners should be cowering in fear every day, but they get calloused to the judgments they see going on all around them, if they even know that they are judgments! And, that's the point: Who's telling them TODAY that these are judgments and not just more "natural catastrophies?" And, when someone tells them, how can it be said so that they understand that the one who tells them is speaking the truth and speaking the truth in LOVE? (If, indeed, one is speaking to them in love!)
To me, the disasters that we see, such as Haiti's earthquake, the sunami in the south Pacific islands, the hurricanes that constantly threaten the Caribbean, Florida, and the coastlines of the US from Texas to Massachusetts not to mention Mexico and the other islands of the Atlantic, these should be seen as OPPORTUNITIES for us to spread the Message of God's Word to hurting peoples everywhere! It reminds me of Yeshua`s answer to His students about the man born blind:
John 9:1-5
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
KJV
Therefore, sometimes things happen that AREN'T related to "sin" and "judgment"; they are OPPORTUNITIES to show God's love to them!
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
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The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/20/2010 2:40:40 AM
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Stormcrow
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quote:
For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be FAMINES, AND PESTILENCES, AND EARTHQUAKES in diverse places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
But this does not say God specifically causes these things in relation to sin. Christ also said this:
quote:
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
To suggest that God uses natural disaster prior to the period of time known as the "Day of the Lord" to judge people turns the gospel on its head!
Think about this for a second: if a Christian dies in an earthquake, does this mean that God determined that Christian should die to satisfy His anger??? Not only is that unscriptural (God has not appointed us unto wrath), but if God's wrath could be satisfied by the death of people, Christians and otherwise, Christ didn't have to die! Such a view denies the fact that Christ's death alone was sufficient to satisfy God's wrath over disbelief!
Put another way, Christ took all the wrath of God on His own body so that we would be saved! How, then, does it make sense that God would knowingly kill Christians in natural disasters as a means to satisfy His wrath against unbelief???
An earthquake at Christ's death opened the graves of the righteous dead. An earthquake will signify His coming to rapture the church. The period in between is a period of God's grace when the saved and unsaved will die - even in natural disasters. But that doesn't mean God is causing these deaths by natural disasters as a way to punish the wicked. If that's true, there are a whole lot of saved people dying in natural disasters that simply didn't deserve to die at God's hand.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/20/2010 3:36:35 AM
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richartrod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melissa11102006
Do you think that the weird winter weather and increased, devastating earthquakes signal God's judgment on the United States and the world?
Melissa,
No, I don't. I live in Los Angeles where yesterday we had a wild storm that flooded neighborhoods and generated two tornadoes. Two more storm fronts are headed our way. Weird weather is actually the norm here in Southern California; as a famous song from the 1970's goes, it doesn't rain here... "it pours, man it pours."
In the same vein, I do not agree with Pat Robertson of "The 700 Club" that the Haiti earthquake is God's judgment on that nation for the alleged satanic sins of its forefathers, a popular theory that has never been proven.
My pastor teaches that natural disasters happen because this is a world that has been cursed with the effects of sin ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God back in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:17-19, Romans 8:20-23). Jesus' own words in Luke 13:1-5 smash to pieces the idea that some people suffer worse than others because their sin is greater.
A series of sermons on this subject is from my church's website at the following link:
www.immanuelfirst.org/mp3guide/grief.htm
Immanuel First Lutheran Church, West Covina, CA
www.immanuelfirst.org
quote:
Do you think that these events are happening as part of the Tribulation, or just part of the sequence of events that come before?
The idea the (Great) Tribulation is already happening because of these recent events doesn't make sense. If that is so, then either we've all been "left behind", the Antichrist has already been revealed, or the one-world government he will lead has already come to pass while we were unaware of it. I don't know of any solid evangelical or bible prophecy scholar who believes the Tribulation has already started.
Heretical kooks like Harold Camping of Family Radio argues we're already in the Tribulation, but he also believes the world will end next year (2011), all churches are corrupt, Jesus really didn't die for our sins and hell is a man-made doctrine.
For the record, Melissa, I used to believe in a pre-trib rapture, but abandoned that doctrine after the numerous failed prophecies of the Y2K bug duped so many of my Christian friends, and coming to the conclusion after reading the entire Bible that many of the Old Testament prophecies used to predict the traditional rapture-tribulation scenario actually prophesied the Israelite exile into Babylon, return to the Promised Land under the Persian empire, and the birth of Christ. So take my post as you see fit.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/20/2010 6:17:41 AM
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sallyannester
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No. Jesus said they would always be with us. How do you know they are not what has gone before and it is just not history repeating (going around in circles)?
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We are so insignificant compared to the size of the known universe. But, we were significant enough for the Creator of the Universe to visit us.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/20/2010 6:29:48 AM
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sallyannester
Posts: 140
Joined: 1/7/2010
From: Australia
Status: offline
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Mark 13:7 - 10 And don't be troubled when you hear the noise of battles close by and news of battles far away. Such things must happen, but they do not mean that the end has come. 8 Countries will fight each other; kingdoms will attack one another. There will be earthquakes everywhere, and there will be famines. These things are like the first pains of childbirth. 9 "You yourselves must watch out. You will be arrested and taken to court. You will be beaten in the synagogues; you will stand before rulers and kings for my sake to tell them the Good News. 10 But before the end comes, the gospel must be preached to all peoples.
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We are so insignificant compared to the size of the known universe. But, we were significant enough for the Creator of the Universe to visit us.
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RE: Is God Judging Us With Increase in Bad Weather, Ear... - 1/20/2010 2:42:25 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1811
Status: offline
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Shalom Retrobyter:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, Ezra.
How bad MUST it get before enough is enough?
It will get intolerably and unimaginably bad as the end approaches. Men will want to die and will not be able to.
quote:
Who's telling them TODAY that these are judgments and not just more "natural catastrophies?"
When some Christians try to point this out, other Christians snipe at them for being "unloving".
quote:
And, when someone tells them, how can it be said so that they understand that the one who tells them is speaking the truth and speaking the truth in LOVE? (If, indeed, one is speaking to them in love!)
We do need the love of Christ constraining us to preach the truth in love. But the most loving thing we can do is to warn sinners of impending Hell, which is far worse than any natural catastrope.
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these should be seen as OPPORTUNITIES for us to spread the Message of God's Word to hurting peoples everywhere!
Absolutely.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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